Curse

Lonesamurai · Sep 06, 2007, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by fripple

You have what is called a "conflict of interest." The correct, legally prescribed tactic in such a situation is to SHUT THE HELL UP. Your opinion on any matter related to the game is irrelevant and, if publicly aired in an unofficial capacity, dangerously unethical, because you have a vested economic interest in specific outcomes, unlike the rest of the people posting.

actually no, I'm independant and if Guild Wars died tomorrow, my station would drop Guild Wars like a hot stone, but from both a personal and a business I hope to hell that it doesn't...

Oh and i set up my station for completely personal reasons, its not a big money endeavour like Gamespot or IGN, its for fun and i only want to make enough to grow the station and play games... its a community station, and I'd tell NCSoft and ANet where to go if they gave me issues and NCSoft are happily working with me because they know its fun and they can actually get an open and good opinion and actually join in teh discussions in our IRC... hell, i even had martin kerstein himself from NCSoft (and from here) DJ'ing himself to finish the GW:EN release day 24hour party... Its fun, thats it

So yeah, as a gamer, my opinion and knowledge are valid

fripple · Sep 06, 2007, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

actually no, I'm independant and if Guild Wars died tomorrow, my station would drop Guild Wars like a hot stone, but from both a personal and a business I hope to hell that it doesn't...

Oh and i set up my station for completely personal reasons, its not a big money endeavour like Gamespot or IGN, its for fun and i only want to make enough to grow the station and play games... its a community station, and I'd tell NCSoft and ANet where to go if they gave me issues and NCSoft are happily working with me because they know its fun and they can actually get an open and good opinion and actually join in teh discussions in our IRC... hell, i even had martin kerstein himself from NCSoft (and from here) DJ'ing himself to finish the GW:EN release day 24hour party... Its fun, thats it

So yeah, as a gamer, my opinion and knowledge are valid

Um, no. Whether you are an official employee of ArenaNet has absolutely nothing to do with conflict of interest. Whether you are making actual dollars out of the enterprise has nothing to do with conflict of interest. If you are personally affected by the outcome of something because there is an element of your private life that is directly involved with an issue in question, there is a conflict of interest. That's how it works. And since you have an operation that received cooperation from the corporation we're discussing here, your conflict of interest is extremely present and extremely incontrovertible. Your opinions are not in fact valid for that simple reason.

I'm finding it strange that every time you try to explain how you're objective you hold up MORE examples of what a seriously compromised perspective you have. Do you not understand how press and marketing work? Because you're, going entirely by the examples you yourself provided (such as the ones in the quote above), the virtual textbook example of a shill, even if you may be an unknowing one.

Now, if we were discussing something internal to the game - is Glint too much of a pushover, do mesmers have too much pink in their pink sparkles, etc - it would be fine. This is a discussion about external, largely economic matters, however, and this is where you get into rhetorical trouble.

Darksun · Sep 06, 2007, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by fripple

I'm finding it strange that every time you try to explain how you're objective you hold up MORE examples of what a seriously compromised perspective you have. Do you not understand how press and marketing work? Because you're, going entirely by the examples you yourself provided (such as the ones in the quote above), the virtual textbook example of a shill, even if you may be an unknowing one.

yeah, i'd have to agree I was kind of confused by how Lone tore his own argument apart with reasons to the contrary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fripple

Now, if we were discussing something internal to the game - is Glint too much of a pushover, do mesmers have too much pink in their pink sparkles, etc - it would be fine. This is a discussion about external, largely economic matters, however, and this is where you get into rhetorical trouble.

I can see your point.

Lone, let me explain my thoughts more fully. If I could get a refund for the game, I wouldn't. Most people would just say "well then shut up!" The reason I speak up is that compared to the products that Anet has made there are some very disappointing aspects of EotN. And they represent an attitude of cutting corners. I disliked MOST of the NF armor & I didn't love the African theme as much as the Proph/Canthan, but I didn't complain because they took the time to make original armor & original environments. In EotN I feel that there is a turn in the philosophy (a bit) & an attempt to make more of a profit margin relative to content compared to the previous games. It's something I haven't seen in the other games, and it bothers me.

That said, I LOVE the Charr lands & the new races are great.

Lonesamurai · Sep 06, 2007, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by fripple

Um, no. Whether you are an official employee of ArenaNet has absolutely nothing to do with conflict of interest. Whether you are making actual dollars out of the enterprise has nothing to do with conflict of interest. If you are personally affected by the outcome of something because there is an element of your private life that is directly involved with an issue in question, there is a conflict of interest. That's how it works. And since you have an operation that received cooperation from the corporation we're discussing here, your conflict of interest is extremely present and extremely incontrovertible. Your opinions are not in fact valid for that simple reason.

I'm finding it strange that every time you try to explain how you're objective you hold up MORE examples of what a seriously compromised perspective you have. Do you not understand how press and marketing work? Because you're, going entirely by the examples you yourself provided (such as the ones in the quote above), the virtual textbook example of a shill, even if you may be an unknowing one.

Now, if we were discussing something internal to the game - is Glint too much of a pushover, do mesmers have too much pink in their pink sparkles, etc - it would be fine. This is a discussion about external, largely economic matters, however, and this is where you get into rhetorical trouble.

Umm, actually no, if i was to make money from it myself as a person that may be the case, but I take nothing from it, all advertising and Donation revenue goes to keep the servers up and add more as and when we need them

You think i want to work in the fickle Game journalism industry as a real job? hahahaha, its a hobbie and i have a real life

In all complete honesty, i'm actually doing it to keep me focused as i'm actually a recovering alcoholic, so yeah, thats why i do it, not to make money and there by destroying your argument, sorry, but there you go

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

yeah, i'd have to agree I was kind of confused by how Lone tore his own argument apart with reasons to the contrary.

I can see your point.

Lone, let me explain my thoughts more fully. If I could get a refund for the game, I wouldn't. Most people would just say "well then shut up!" The reason I speak up is that compared to the products that Anet has made there are some very disappointing aspects of EotN. And they represent an attitude of cutting corners. I disliked MOST of the NF armor & I didn't love the African theme as much as the Proph/Canthan, but I didn't complain because they took the time to make original armor & original environments. In EotN I feel that there is a turn in the philosophy (a bit) & an attempt to make more of a profit margin relative to content compared to the previous games. It's something I haven't seen in the other games, and it bothers me.

That said, I LOVE the Charr lands & the new races are great.

Hell, I've not even had chance to get firther than the hall of Monuments myself as i've had flu, but from what i've seen its more of the same with some minor bells and whistles, exactly as i knew it would be... Factions was more of the same game, as was nightfall, so why would I, or anyone else consider GW:EN to be a major departure from what we already have?

and armour reskins? most of the 15k elite armours in prophecies and Factions are only reskins anyway, so whats the big deal?

Weapon reskins? there are only so many ways you can make a sword look, or a hammer for that matter... now if I got a one handed hammer, now i'd have played my arse off and made a smiting monk with a one handed hammer and shield

new heroes? ok, again, more bells and whistles

Dungeons? umm, ok...

Oh, and not to mention the fact that the next product with Guild Wars in the title that we know of is 18 months to 2 years away... besides the fact that this is a casual game you can come and go from... FFS, I run the Guild Wars community team for the station, i DJ the Guild wars show, but I don't play every minute of every day

fripple · Sep 06, 2007, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

Umm, actually no, if i was to make money from it myself as a person that may be the case, but I take nothing from it, all advertising and Donation revenue goes to keep the servers up and add more as and when we need them

You think i want to work in the fickle Game journalism industry as a real job? hahahaha, its a hobbie and i have a real life

In all complete honesty, i'm actually doing it to keep me focused as i'm actually a recovering alcoholic, so yeah, thats why i do it, not to make money and there by destroying your argument, sorry, but there you go

As I already said, making money has nothing to do with conflict of interest. Anything you have personal ties to in some way creates a conflict of interest. Is your child doing poorly in school? You have a conflict of interest in determining the cause of the problem because you are personally tied to the child's welfare. You aren't profiting from the child's education unless you're exceptionally creative with financing.

I'm not saying you can't have an opinion on issues (while in many cases of conflict of interest the required thing to do is to recuse yourself immediately, this is a message board and that would be a little silly), I'm just pointing out that questions of corporate behavior are pretty iffy because you do something where game-external events have an impact on your activity, while most of the rest of us do not. It's important to bear this in mind when having discussions.

Darksun · Sep 06, 2007, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

Hell, I've not even had chance to get firther than the hall of Monuments myself as i've had flu, but from what i've seen its more of the same with some minor bells and whistles, exactly as i knew it would be... Factions was more of the same game, as was nightfall, so why would I, or anyone else consider GW:EN to be a major departure from what we already have?

I disagree completely. Environments make a HUGE difference. There is no end to what they can look like. Charr Lands? amazing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

and armour reskins? most of the 15k elite armours in prophecies and Factions are only reskins anyway, so whats the big deal?

Um..(1 example) besides Proph giving my warrior 15 sets with 1 or 2 tweaked reskins, Factions & NF giving 6 with 1 or 2 tweaked reskins in stead of 5 set with 3 reskins. gee i dunno...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

Weapon reskins? there are only so many ways you can make a sword look, or a hammer for that matter... now if I got a one handed hammer, now i'd have played my arse off and made a smiting monk with a one handed hammer and shield

Again, as an artist I completely disagree.. I think EotN has great weapons. almost no reskins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

Dungeons? umm, ok...

since you're only at the eye... well.. I didn't believe it at first, but they are pretty repetitive. I dunno.. I still think they are kinda cool.

Lonesamurai · Sep 06, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by fripple

As I already said, making money has nothing to do with conflict of interest. Anything you have personal ties to in some way creates a conflict of interest. Is your child doing poorly in school? You have a conflict of interest in determining the cause of the problem because you are personally tied to the child's welfare. You aren't profiting from the child's education unless you're exceptionally creative with financing.

I'm not saying you can't have an opinion on issues (while in many cases of conflict of interest the required thing to do is to recuse yourself immediately, this is a message board and that would be a little silly), I'm just pointing out that questions of corporate behavior are pretty iffy because you do something where game-external events have an impact on your activity, while most of the rest of us do not. It's important to bear this in mind when having discussions.

And as i said and as i have happily done on Guru and over on TGH, i will happily bitch about issues in game, and even on my show, just cos i do a show and i work with NCSoft, we are in no way affiliated or linked to NCSoft or ANet, or Blizzard, SoE, Auran or anyone else for that matter...

As such we have no conflict of interest over any game the station or my guild covers and will happily pull any show that doesn't have ratings... If Guild wars sucks, i'll pull it...

however, I have stated my PERSONAL feelings on the subject of GW:EN and the chances of the game being refunded... others have even quoted from the EULA, which everyone here who is playing has agreed to... this EULA is a typical EULA for most online games, with typical wording, if anyone here doesn't want to agree to the EULA that is available to read through ont eh official website BTW, then they shouldn't have bought the game in the first place and I have no sympathy for anyone that buys a product or any other intellectual type and then doesn't like it with out finding out more about it first

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

I disagree completely. Environments make a HUGE difference. There is no end to what they can look like. Charr Lands? amazing.

haven't seen the Charr lands yet, but Loki keeps squealing like a girl about them and guildies are screaming about how pretty they are too, so i'll wait and see...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

Um..(1 example) besides Proph giving my warrior 15 sets with 1 or 2 tweaked reskins, Factions & NF giving 6 with 1 or 2 tweaked reskins in stead of 5 set with 3 reskins. gee i dunno...

Sunspear Armour 5k and 15k alone were reskins of Kurzick 5k and 15k, most of the elite armours in prophs were reskins, that was the point of them and no one complained back then

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

Again, as an artist I completely disagree.. I think EotN has great weapons. almost no reskins.

Actually from seeing the weapons on guru i'm not overly impressed, but hell, i have my weapons and my characters are decked out and don't need changes so fnuh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

since you're only at the eye... well.. I didn't believe it at first, but they are pretty repetitive. I dunno.. I still think they are kinda cool.

I really don't care about repetitiveness, the entire game is repetitive the second time through, i only do it with guildies for pleasure now

Gattocheese · Sep 06, 2007, 10:42 PM // 22:42

This thread was once a great thread used to express your thoughts on the value of GWEN. Now you guys are turning it into crap by trying to say that your guys opinions are more valid then each others. Dont do this. Anet needs to know that people are upset or dissappointed in this expansion. Yes its good in some aspects. But it had the potential to be great.

tongling · Sep 07, 2007, 12:15 AM // 00:15

yes, I paid more than what its worth

-Loki- · Sep 07, 2007, 12:57 AM // 00:57

I paid $50au for it. It's about what I pay for any other expansion, and it's got the amount of content I generally find in an expansion. Just be thankful it wasn't Half Life 2 Episode 1 style 3 hours of gameplay.

w00t! · Sep 07, 2007, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

(snip)
It took us a month to beat prophecies (not counting Glint quests), 2 weeks to beat Factions, and about 2 weeks to beat Nightfall. GW:EN? A whole 4 days. So, content = a lot less.

How many hours in those four days? What was the price you paid per hour?

Is there anywhere else you can get this kind of value for your dollar?

Just curious, and am interested in an honest response from forum members.

My opinion: GW:EN is not as good a deal for my entertainment dollar as Prophecies or Nightfall, but it is still fantastic on a cost per hour basis.

Gattocheese · Sep 07, 2007, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Well honestly, what most expansions for pc games give you is replayability. Now for MMO's its a lil different. I would pay $20-$30 dollars for a rts expansion and be able to enjoy that for months on end. First person shooters, you should really never buy an expansion for. The irony is though, if they would of told me the truth about the expansion in the first place, I probaly would of still bought it. I would of hated the price but still bought it. If they would of told me
40 reskinned armors!
green brute swords and reskinned weapons!
reskinned monsters!
10 heros with amazing armors you'll never wear!
Short storyline!
Dungeons with no real replayability!
Hall of Monuments that only displays limited items and titles!

i would of still bought it for something to do in GW. I actually would of had more fun do to that fact my expectations would not be so high.

But if it were another game, i would of paided $20 for it. Hell yes it was too expensive, but they can charge top dollar due to the large following.

AngeloM3 · Sep 07, 2007, 01:31 AM // 01:31

OK I admit I didn't read all 7 pages of this.

But I've seen a lot of threads on the topic of EoTN was a let down or not worth the money.

I think a lot of people either don't know or aren't thinking straight... but EoTN isn't FINAL product. They will be adding more material at some later date... like HM, forget the exact name but some more areas kinda like Dungeons and probably other stuff.

Gattocheese · Sep 07, 2007, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngeloM3

OK I admit I didn't read all 7 pages of this.

But I've seen a lot of threads on the topic of EoTN was a let down or not worth the money.

I think a lot of people either don't know or aren't thinking straight... but EoTN isn't FINAL product. They will be adding more material at some later date... like HM, forget the exact name but some more areas kinda like Dungeons and probably other stuff.

Per Gaile Gray, on the contest winners and ect. They are not planning a hardmode or extra content for GWEN. They do have however that mission bonus pack in Nov. for buying in the online store

AngeloM3 · Sep 07, 2007, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gattocheese

Per Gaile Gray, on the contest winners and ect. They are not planning a hardmode or extra content for GWEN. They do have however that mission bonus pack in Nov. for buying in the online store

Really? hmmmm I've been grossly misinformed then.

Sorry about that!

I could of swore I heard something about Realms of Gods or something like that being added.

Kula · Sep 07, 2007, 01:42 AM // 01:42

If you add in the (OPTIONAL) expense of the GW:EN Soundtrack for $9.99 you pretty much have paid for a stand-alone game.

-

I don't know if GW:EN is worth $40 since I haven't finished it yet...

..but to me that soundtrack is not worth $9.99, lulz.

HawkofStorms · Sep 07, 2007, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngeloM3

I think a lot of people either don't know or aren't thinking straight... but EoTN isn't FINAL product. They will be adding more material at some later date... like HM, forget the exact name but some more areas kinda like Dungeons and probably other stuff.

That is correct. They ARE added HM. Also, they are adding the weapon design contents winners. Galie HAS confirmed this in other threads.

Either way, that is NOT an acceptable excuse. Releasing glitchy products to a general population is not a good thing. They are being paid to create a quality, polished, and complete product.

Gattocheese · Sep 07, 2007, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngeloM3

Really? hmmmm I've been grossly misinformed then.

Sorry about that!

I could of swore I heard something about Realms of Gods or something like that being added.

Its cool. I just saw her say that today in a different forum. But, i havent heard anything about the realm of gods, maybe its content for another campaign, or a part of the mission pack we get in november. That would be nice. If so. ANET! PLeaseeeeeeeeeeeee put in some original armor in there!

AngeloM3 · Sep 07, 2007, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Hawk... what do you mean by when you say "glitchy products"?

acidic · Sep 07, 2007, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngeloM3

OK I admit I didn't read all 7 pages of this.

But I've seen a lot of threads on the topic of EoTN was a let down or not worth the money.

I think a lot of people either don't know or aren't thinking straight... but EoTN isn't FINAL product. They will be adding more material at some later date... like HM, forget the exact name but some more areas kinda like Dungeons and probably other stuff.

We didn't RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing pay to be their RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing beta testers